In this engaging podcast episode, we delve into the intricate and beautiful world of human connection with a special guest, Jason Courtemanche. Not just your typical conversation, Jason’s unique background as an identical twin, a minister, a certified Somatica® Sex and Relationship Coach, and a passionate tango dancer, adds layers of wisdom and insight to the art of repair conversations.

Jason Courtemanche is a multifaceted individual with a deep understanding of the nuances of relationships, and in this episode, he shares his experiences and expertise on how we can navigate the delicate dance of connection. Whether you’re seeking to enhance your romantic relationships, improve communication with loved ones, or simply connect with others on a deeper level, this episode provides valuable insights and practical advice.

We explore the concept of “repair conversations,” a skillset essential for maintaining healthy connections and resolving conflicts in any relationship. Drawing from his background in ministry, Somatica® coaching, and the world of tango dancing, Jason offers a unique perspective on how we can heal, grow, and connect more authentically with those around us.

Tune in to this episode for a rich discussion on:

– The unique dynamics of being an identical twin and how it influences one’s understanding of connection.
– Jason’s journey from ministry to becoming a certified Somatica® Sex and Relationship Coach.
– The profound connection between somatic experiences and our emotional well-being.
– The role of tango dancing as a metaphor for relationship dynamics and communication.
– Practical tips and insights for mastering the art of repair conversations in your own life.

Join us in this deep and insightful conversation, as we learn from Jason Courtemanche’s wealth of experiences and wisdom to help you navigate the intricate dance of connection in your own life. Whether you’re striving for more fulfilling relationships or simply seeking personal growth, this episode offers valuable guidance on the path to deeper, more meaningful connections.

Watch on YouTube – Premieres November 1st, 7 AM ET

Listen on Spotify

Melanie McSally
Welcome to another episode of WyzeCast™. The show that elevates the voices, shines the light of our heart-centered guests, and amplifies the positive differences they are making in the world.

I am super excited about our guest today. He’s an identical twin, a minister, a certified somatic Sex and Relationships coach, and a dedicated tango dancer. He’s here to tell us all about repair conversations. If you don’t know what these are, folks, you’re not alone. I didn’t know either. But our guest is here to change that because they will increase the depth of your connections regardless of whether the type of relationship or connection is friends, family, or romantic. He has had over 1000 of these types of conversations and has seen their power in the way people look at intimacy and connection across all types of connections. My name is Melanie McSally, your host for today’s episode. And without further adieu, I would like to welcome the handsome, the compassionate, and the engaging Jason Courtemanche, who is coming to us from Massachusetts. Jason, welcome.

Jason Courtemanche
Thank you, Melanie. Thank you for that amazing, warm welcome. It’s great to be here.

Melanie McSally
Well, we’re delighted to have you. Can you describe a turning point in your mastering of these repair conversations?

Jason Courtemanche
Absolutely. Yeah, it really came down to growing up with my identical twin, and we just got to the point where we’re just butting heads. People who have an identical twin know we share the same DNA, so I can’t replace him; we have to figure this out. That sparked this idea about, like, what are we going to do? Saying sorry wasn’t fixing anything, and so out of that desperation of us both choosing back, we stumbled into repair conversations. We didn’t call them that at the time; it wasn’t until decades later. But, yeah, it was really just that incident that really sparked my interest of, what are we going to do?

Melanie McSally
I can totally relate; I have siblings. Well, I have one sibling, but she’s not a twin of mine, and thankfully for me, we’re seven years apart. So you know, if we were having a fight, we didn’t share the same social circles, so we could just be like, see-yeah, bye. I would imagine that you are sharing circles with your brother since you’re the same age and, well, identical.

Jason Courtemanche
Oh, absolutely. I explain having a twin to people like this: It’s like having your best friend over all the time, except they look like you, and you can’t send them home when you get sick of them.

Melanie McSally
How did your personal experiences shape your understanding of intimacy and relationships, particularly in light of the lessons from Don Miguel Ruiz’s book The Mastery of Love?

Jason Courtemanche
That’s a great question. That book really changed everything for me because it really, really explained the experiences that I was having. We have these very delicate parts of ourselves or wounds; some people call them landmines; everyone has them. When a partner, a friend, or someone close to us touches these wounds it can be very painful. Reading this book really brought awareness because we grew up together we know where each other’s wounds are, and eventually, we learn how to stay away from them. In romantic relationships, we don’t have that back story; we don’t know where they are. It’s kind of trial by error, but there’s a real gift in knowing what someone’s wound or landmine is and then also having the restraint to avoid it. Especially in romantic relationships, we let people see parts of ourselves, and we learn about parts of ourselves that we wouldn’t experience in any other connection.

Melanie McSally
So, you know, we’ve been friends for a while, and so I, I know, you and your brother, and I’ve heard you say before that sometimes, because even though you are identical twins, you each have different strengths and weaknesses, or landmines as you want to call it, although I don’t really like that term, because it seems so destructive. But I’ve heard you say that sometimes you would rely on your brother because he would have strengths where you have weaknesses, and vice versa. So, how do repair conversations help you with your own personal growth and development?

Jason Courtemanche
I find it helps everywhere because it allows you to get past the specifics of the action and get to a bigger perspective: what’s the issue behind the issue? By having these kinds of conversations and really learning about our wounds or landmines. My brother calls them buttons; I’m gonna poke your button. It’s funny, because of our history, he knows if he’s pushing one, and so I don’t have to give him the satisfaction; he knows where they are. But once we learn where our partner’s buttons are, then we can be careful to stay away from them. But it’s part of intimacy, pushing them, it happens, and learning how to have a repair conversation and talk about the feeling behind the action creates a space to share parts of ourselves with people that matter to us and also heal those parts of ourselves that still need a little more love.

Melanie McSally
The term kind of explains what repair conversations are, but just in case, what are they like, officially? Is it just like the name implies? Is it just repairing something? What’s your technical definition for repair conversations, in layman’s terms, please?

Jason Courtemanche
In layman’s terms, a repair conversation is being vulnerable to share how we really feel about the situation and basically move away from the right/wrong, and the fact-finding of things and move into, how am I feeling now? To really let someone in to understand why I feel so hurt. It’s far deeper than whatever the action is; that’s just the start. There’s a beautiful moment when you can get to the point where you can really hear someone, really share about how they really feel. It takes a lot of courage for someone to share that, and for the person listening, it takes a lot of courage to sit in discomfort. No matter how noble our intentions are, we don’t usually intend to poke someone’s button, but it happens. So, to really sit with compassion and be given the space to share without defending ourselves is the very first component to start to help change the conversation from defensiveness to understanding.

Melanie McSally
Yeah, I love that because, in my opinion, there is no right or wrong; there are just different perspectives. So it can feel very lonely if we’re not heard and understood, so being able to be vulnerable, and share the core of the onion and then have somebody truly listen and hear you and validate you, I think that is a good step in both people developing. It’s not even necessarily repairing but just growing.

Jason Courtemanche
Absolutely, yeah growing and really understanding why I am so triggered. How am I relating to the issue is the issue? Both people are giving each other a gift to learn something new. At the same time, when we’re being courageous and sharing, we’re also letting someone farther into our internal world, breaking down that stereotype that if you love me, you could read my mind, which is false, but it is a fantastic thing to think about and want and so by having repair conversations and learning how to share more of what we’re thinking helps close that gap of assumptions and be in the moment with someone else.

Melanie McSally
Yeah. Not only are you potentially repairing relationships with other people, but you’re also repairing the relationship with yourself, which is undeniably the most important relationship. And just like you said earlier about your twin brother, you can’t ever leave yourself. Okay, so how did the sense of secure attachment with your twin brother influence your perspective on relationships and the importance of having repair conversations?

Jason Courtemanche
Yeah, that’s a great question. The secure attachment is what really allowed me to stumble into it because I wasn’t afraid of him going anywhere; that wasn’t even a thought. It was even easier to share and show up authentically. When you realize that you could say or do anything and know that they’re not going anywhere, that creates a tremendous connection and feeling of safety. It really kind of brought my attention to dating. I noticed I’m not having repair conversations, so how do I go from maintaining intimacy to creating intimacy with a brand new person and not having as much sense of security? At the time, I didn’t realize that the key that made it all possible was being vulnerable and letting someone into my world. It’s a thousand little steps. We don’t share all of ourselves. It’s like, I trust you with this, can you handle it? I’m gonna trust you with this. And it goes in both directions.

Melanie McSally
So you had your twin brother and siblings have to love us, so if somebody doesn’t have a sibling, how might they go about starting to have these conversations, because they might not feel like they can trust somebody, or how can they start weeding these waters of figuring out who to practice with?

Jason Courtemanche
It’s a great question. The easiest place to practice is in our close friendships, places where we feel safe, whether it’s through family relationships or close friendships, places where people have already earned the trust to hear parts of our story. I love what Brené Brown talks about; we share with people who have shown up and earned the right to hear our story. I think that’s a great place to start because that’s a really safe space to explore these kinds of things. Repair conversations are hard and messy and take practice. You want to practice because you’re gonna mess it up. Being courageous and vulnerable are two words that are easy to say, but actually doing it takes courage.

Melanie McSally
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, relationships are hard. I mean, it’s hard enough being in a relationship with yourself, let alone with other people and for long periods of time. So, how did your relationship with your twin brother and having regular repair conversations shape your perspective of intimacy, particularly in light of the difficulty of achieving the same level of closeness in romantic relationships?

Jason Courtemanche
Yeah, it really just brought my intention to the fact that I had no idea what I was doing. At the same time, because I had the reference point, I understood the level of understanding and connection that you could share, to be seen and understood by another person, and then wanting to be seen and understood at a similar level from a romantic partner and realizing that that gap was so different. I thought, how come? That’s what really sparked the question and the exploration; there has to be more here because I want a deeper connected partnership. At the time, I had no idea what to do; I just knew that it was possible, and that’s what really kind of got me going.

Melanie McSally
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. I can’t remember. I was doing something with my parents last week or a couple weeks ago, and I turned into to a kid again. I was like, why, why, why, why. I think it’s such a beautiful characteristic we have as children that we somehow lose or diminish as we grow older, and I love what you just shared because it approached the situation like, I have this relationship with my twin brother; why can’t I have a level of intimacy and relationship or the same type of deep conversations in a romantic relationship that I have with my sibling. You know, why can’t I? Why isn’t that possible? Let’s let’s see if it is.

Jason Courtemanche
Yeah. I love that because you’re absolutely right—the innocence of a child asking why and having that reference point. I don’t think I would have ever explored it without having that reference point. Yeah, because intimacy is an easy word to say, but opening up and letting someone into our world and hoping that they choose back and still want to accept us for who we are is scary. It’s an interesting step in the process.

Melanie McSally
Yeah, I mean, you and I talk about dating in the world all the time and the experiences we have. Every time you get a “No,” it’s like a little jab at your heart. You’re like, Oh, why did they say no? I personally have to keep reminding myself that there are 8 billion people on this planet, and I’m not going to date all of them. So you know, it’s okay that they said No. And I think the word intimacy has this connotation of being in one type of relationship. But if we can explore it to say, how can I have intimacy in all my relationships? I think that will give us a new depth to our connections with people that will allow society to feel less lonely. I mean, the biggest complaint right now is connection and loneliness, lack of connection and loneliness out in, at least in the United States, in society. I can’t remember what this statistic was, but I recently read that. So why do you think this change in communication can have long-lasting effects on relationships?

Jason Courtemanche
So it’s because it goes past the surface level thing and actually gets to the issue behind the issue.

Melanie McSally
It’s the two little letters, but yet they have such a broad impact, whether it’s, I will not do that for you, I will not take on that, that work for you, I will not do it for that amount of money, or I will not date you, they all have this huge impact on the receiver of those messages. Those are just a few examples, and I think that’s why it’s so hard for people to say it, let alone hear it. So, how do you see the role of self-awareness and expressing feelings in the process of learning these repair conversations?

Jason Courtemanche
Oh, it’s, it’s fundamental. You have to develop self-awareness because you have to figure out what you’re doing or not doing. The first part is understanding, am I in an emotional conversation? Am I too triggered and out of my capacity? Because if I’m too triggered, I can’t have a repair conversation, I need to calm down. And then having the courage to come back and bring it up. But having the awareness piece is key. Especially when we think about, and we can use this in all aspects of our lives, how we’ve created, promoted, or allowed it. Having the awareness of how I’ve shown up is an interesting thing to think about, especially in relationships. Because the other person didn’t do 100% of it. I didn’t do 100% of it. It’s really a tricky blend. I think that’s why it’s so important. Especially when giving feedback sticking with “I” or, “for me” statements versus “you did”. Using “you did” statements rob us of the opportunity to share how we’re really feeling. So saying, “For me, I’m feeling,” or at least staying on the individual is what gives us the space to really share vulnerably and really let the other person listen empathetically. But again, it takes practice because it’s very easy to get defensive and not listen. And for my mind, the easiest pitfall is people want to say I’m sorry too soon, especially if they’re saying sorry for the action, but they don’t understand the underlying feeling or the underlying hurt. That’s what we really need to be getting that, because that’s where the understanding and the expanded shared understanding comes from.

Melanie McSally
Yeah, I mean, it’s so true. It’s not just the doer, what they say and what they do, and how they say and do it. It’s also how the other person received it. As we were talking earlier, all the emotion and baggage and attachment that they apply to it. And third, it’s also the environment we’re in. So, you know, a couple of days ago, I was in a group meeting, and we were all put on the spot to speak publicly. I wanted to talk about one thing, but then I realized last minute that I probably shouldn’t share that thing because it wasn’t public yet. So, I shared a different thing, and the way I shared it, because I was exhausted and feeling a bit overwhelmed and put on the spot, didn’t come out the way I intended it to come out. I thought about it later, and I was like, Oh, they probably think I’m XY and Z. So really understanding how you say it, the way you say it, the environment you’re in, and the people that are receiving it. We don’t know everybody’s backstory, so having compassion for the fact that they may receive it in a way you didn’t intend and then being vulnerable and going back and saying, Hey, I realized that what I said or what I did may have come across differently than I meant it. Can we chat about that?

Jason Courtemanche
Yeah. It’s really interesting how that happens, especially when we’re put on the spot and nervous. What you said makes a good point, being able to go back and renegotiate or come back and just share, like how you just did like internally, like, “Oh, I didn’t feel like that was my best,” or just being able to own that and say that versus not saying anything, and then having someone else start the conversation. It takes courage to open up and admit how we’re feeling about something even when we don’t want to sometimes.

Melanie McSally
yeah, or just like letting them believe something that’s inaccurate or inauthentic to you. Thank you, Jason. It has been such a pleasure having you and learning about these repair conversations. Listening to your wisdom and passion for helping people. I know that you have a gift for our listeners. Do you want to share some final thoughts and that gift for them?

Jason Courtemanche
Absolutely. Yeah, I just want to invite everyone to join me for a 90-minute masterclass, where I can really go into the ten steps of having an effective repair conversation so that we can really learn a new tool and get support on exploring a new way of communicating with the people that matter to us.

Melanie McSally
That’s awesome. So we covered such a breadth of information here. Is the how-to and the intricacies of the how-to something that you go over in this masterclass?

Jason Courtemanche
Exactly, yeah, I’m gonna go over all the steps on how to do it. We’re going to practice. Our first way through the ten steps would be a lot, so we’re going to take it in pieces. We’ll build those muscles of attunement of self-awareness. Get used to being in connection with someone and really learning these skills so that we can then build from there. As I mentioned, one of the hardest steps is when the person that you know pushes a button, and even though they didn’t mean to, they need to learn to sit in that discomfort and actually listen to you share vulnerably about how you’re actually feeling.

If you watch, a lot of people will try to hijack the conversation, “Oh, I didn’t mean to.” That’s not the point; it’s to really hear how the other person is feeling. To do that, we have to learn how to sit in our own disappointment, and that takes a little bit of work, but it’s just one of many crucial steps that are required to have an effective repair conversation. It’s something that takes time to implement, but I think it’s definitely worth the effort.

Melanie McSally
Yeah. So I can imagine that, this is a great masterclass, I can’t believe you’re giving this complimentary to our listeners, thank you for that, I can imagine that this is not only great for people who want to learn more and how-to, but also maybe for those people that feel like they don’t have somebody to practice on, because I know you and your personality and your business and you create the safe spaces for people to get vulnerable and learn tips and strategies that maybe they don’t want to do in public spaces.

Jason Courtemanche
Absolutely. As a sex and relationship coach, I absolutely do. That’s one of the things that I really focus on, creating a space to really practice and be in relationships with people and sharing vulnerably in both directions. This work is definitely learn-by-doing; it’s not intellectualizing; it’s learning how to sit embodied, and share vulnerably to see what comes up, and be guided through the process. It’s definitely a great way of learning. That’s the way that I like to learn so that’s why I’m doing it like this.

Melanie McSally
Awesome. Well, it’s clear you have a passion for helping people and that’s exactly what we’re all about. So, thank you for that. If you’d like to learn the steps on how to have repair conversations, then I highly suggest that you take Jason up on his offer for a 90-minute deep dive master class into repair conversations. Click here to sign up today.

I want to thank our listeners for tuning in. If you like what you’ve heard here today, please do like, share, and comment. We are trying to get WyzeTribe™ to be a hot new release. So if you feel inspired, if you feel moved, if you feel called, if we earned it, please do like, share, and comment. It is free for you to do so and really helps the podcast grow. And we really do love your engagement.

This was another episode of WyzeCast™, the show that elevates the voices, shines the light, showcases the gifts of our heart-centered guests, and amplifies the positive difference they’re making in the world.

If you want to learn more about WyzeCast™, you can visit our wyzecast.com. We dropped ten episodes every month on the 21st, so you can binge-watch or spread them out over the month. Whatever suits your mood and lifestyle.

Once again, my name is Melanie. It has been my pleasure being your host today. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching, thank you for your engagement, and I invite you to come back and join me once again for our next episode of WyzeCast™.